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DE Evaluation
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ScORcHeR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: DE Evaluation Reply with quote

How do i make sense of the 3's, 4's and 5's that my instructor gave me during my last DE at VIR in sept? His evaluation has been posted on motorsportsreg.com and i really dont understand how to relate the numbers to my driving style.

is there a blank form that will show how the numbers fall into each section?

thks.
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Stack
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: DE Evaluation Reply with quote

ScORcHeR wrote:
How do i make sense of the 3's, 4's and 5's that my instructor gave me during my last DE at VIR in sept? His evaluation has been posted on motorsportsreg.com and i really dont understand how to relate the numbers to my driving style.

is there a blank form that will show how the numbers fall into each section?

thks.


Which event? Tarheel BMW?

-stacy

BTW... I'm glad you're asking this. This is the kind of question that will make MotorsportReg that much better.
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ScORcHeR
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, the Tarheel BMW club out of Rtown.
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ScORcHeR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible to get copies of the evaluation form after the instructor has completed his grading process?

does the BMW club or other clubs in the area make these available?
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M III Pilot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only had one instructor go over his evaluation of me prior to turning it in.
I think it was from the last BMW event I was at, and from what I understood there was a scale of 1-10.

If your closer to the bottom your a beginner, while moving up you get to the novice, intermediate and advanced groups who should be in the 9's and 10's.
So if your in the in novice group and getting 3's, 4's, and 5's you're performing as expected, I think.

At least that's my understanding, and if I'm wrong Stacy will set everything right and I'll go hide under a rock.
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whitney
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M III Pilot wrote:
I've only had one instructor go over his evaluation of me prior to turning it in.


You need better instructors! I have *always* reviewed my students' evals with them, it's a great learning opportunity. I think it's something every instructor should do, and I would encourage you to always ask for it if possible.

M III Pilot wrote:

If your closer to the bottom your a beginner, while moving up you get to the novice, intermediate and advanced groups who should be in the 9's and 10's.
So if your in the in novice group and getting 3's, 4's, and 5's you're performing as expected, I think.


Every student eval I have done is rating a driver against the run group. So a 9/10 green (beginner) student typically becomes a 5/6/7 yellow (intermed) student.
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EvanM5
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be missing something... I've had some great instructors, but I've done I believe 13-14 DE's now and I've never seen a filled out evaluation?

Am I not looking in the right places? Haha
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M III Pilot
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whitney wrote:
M III Pilot wrote:
I've only had one instructor go over his evaluation of me prior to turning it in.


You need better instructors! I have *always* reviewed my students' evals with them, it's a great learning opportunity. I think it's something every instructor should do, and I would encourage you to always ask for it if possible.

M III Pilot wrote:

If your closer to the bottom your a beginner, while moving up you get to the novice, intermediate and advanced groups who should be in the 9's and 10's.
So if your in the in novice group and getting 3's, 4's, and 5's you're performing as expected, I think.


Every student eval I have done is rating a driver against the run group. So a 9/10 green (beginner) student typically becomes a 5/6/7 yellow (intermed) student.


OK, I'll bow to your greater knowledge to the ways of the eval. Cool

I've had some good instructors, and they've always talked to me about my driving and what I do/did well and things I'll need to work on, it's just the specific eval review has only happened once.
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claud
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The instructors from both my HPDEs went over the evaluation form with me.
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ProCoach
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Evaluation grading Reply with quote

That's a great question.

Unfortunately, each organization and each instructor has a different "scale" that they grade by, and most don't grade at all! Some instructors are overly harsh, especially if their are in big HP cars and their students are in "underwhelming" lower HP cars. Some are afraid of pointing out areas for improvement (or just plain lazy) and, worse yet, some instructors don't know what or how to point out their students weaknesses. It's a tough deal...

In SCCA competition driving school, the scale is 1-5, 3 being "average" or "meets expectations" (in the new corporate speak <grin>). Most folks make 3's. Almost no one makes 5's unless they are beyond expectations, not just those that "exceed" (again, corporate speak <very>), which equates to a "4."

Your instructor's duties, at least in a Tarheel BMWCCA DE setting, is to go over with you your evaluation before either turning you loose or the end of the weekend, whichever comes first. Otherwise, how do you know what you need to work on to progress?

I'm surprised MotorsportsReg is publishing these. For years, evaluations were used by the event organizers internally solely to help determine where the student should be placed next school. It wasn't even personal, it was to help "balance" the run groups when two folks had similar experience, but one was more "ready" than another.

Because there is no common grading system, and because instructors in general are so varied in their experience, the numbers are meaningless unless they are accompanied with objective, supporting comments and observations.

Don't get too twisted up about the numbers. Without background, they're just about useless!

-Peter
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Stack
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the board Peter! Hope things are going well with your new venture.

Peter's right that the numbers are different from group to group... if there are any at all. I was able to get a copy and explain the BMWCCA numbers with Scorcher via PM, not really knowing if its relevant to detail everything here. I will say that there is a LOT of detail on the BMWCCA eval form, although the grading scale is a little convoluted (yet it somehow makes sense).

To Peter's comment about MotorsportReg publishing the info... that's not exactly the case. Each organizer has the ability to input the info from the eval forms into the system for that particular event. We then have a few options for publication: 1) Host club organizer only 2) MSR organizers only and 3) Organizers subject, and author.

It's never in a public domain type situation

I feel like it is a very good thing, and could be even better served once all us organizers really get a feel for HOW to write up the info.
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ProCoach
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's going great, Stacy!

I'm starting to get a lot of inquiries for scheduling weekday personal instruction for those interested at VIR this year and next.

There are a LOT of folks that are intermediate to advanced track day drivers, primarily those doing lapping days, who are interested in having a professional work with them to get better. I thought it would mostly be noobs, but it's mostly high-time folks.

Together with the advent of an inexpensive GPS-based DAQ (like Traqmate), it can allow folks to make big progress in short period of time.

My weekends for 2008 are nearly full! <grin>

Thanks for the correction on the public domain thing. I'm not sure I would want my grades public! Mr. Green

-Peter
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David W
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome Peter! glad to hear things are going great!

Lolaman wrote:
There are a LOT of folks that are intermediate to advanced track day drivers, primarily those doing lapping days, who are interested in having a professional work with them to get better.

Professional instruction/coaching is probably the best money you can spend to go faster. I am a huge advocate of it and have experienced its benefits first hand.

I had hit (what i felt was) a plateau in my driving and worked with a professional coach to get "over the hump"...we saw immediate results (lower lap times) and it really taught me how to learn. I learned how to better analyze tracks/turns to figure out how to go faster (which will help me at every track i go to, not just the one i was coached at). That was over a year ago and i have continued to progress as a driver ever since.

Quote:
I thought it would mostly be noobs, but it's mostly high-time folks.

i would think people with a good bit of experience would realize the benefits of coaching more than a noob...

Quote:
Together with the advent of an inexpensive GPS-based DAQ (like Traqmate), it can allow folks to make big progress in short period of time.

+1

see you at roebling!

-David
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Arakele
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David W wrote:

Quote:
I thought it would mostly be noobs, but it's mostly high-time folks.

i would think people with a good bit of experience would realize the benefits of coaching more than a noob...



very very true.. I tried getting a few of my co-workers with the interest in tracking to sign up, and then they scoffed when I told them they would have an instructor. It's amazing how many folks with ego's get behind the wheel of a car.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arakele wrote:


very very true.. I tried getting a few of my co-workers with the interest in tracking to sign up, and then they scoffed when I told them they would have an instructor. It's amazing how many folks with ego's get behind the wheel of a car.


That's really a shame to hear. At least maybe try to get them to visit your next event or something. Otherwise, they can stay at home with their EGO's for all I care.
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